so... i live in mexico and i am helping with an esl class (english as a second language).
actually, i am helping with two classes.
i get two days a week in which i just stand there and have a debate with the class, encouraging as many as possible to just talk... in english.. anyways, i like talking about subjects that generate debate.
How about the protozoa known as Amoeba dubia? It has a genome more than 200 times bigger than a human!
Wow! Really? I say we make that protozoa the official mascot of JWs. The huge genome stands for Watchtower's huge collection of publications that they've produced, most of which is now out of print junk that bring them shame.
'in order to extend mercy, the committee must be convinced that the wrongdoer has a changed heart condition and that he has a zeal to right the wrong and is absolutely determined to avoid it in the future.'.
shepherd the flock page 91. i remember this is one of the first things that concerned me as an elder because it seemed to sound like a person is guilty until proven innocent rather than 'love believes all things', especially given the word 'convinced' appears in bold.. then in a training video one elder said something like 'unless we are convinced of repentance the shepherd the flock book says we must disfellowship'.
that was the begining of the end for me as i thought surely true christians would reason the other way round and show mercy wherever possible.. any thoughts?.
That advice in the elder's book is quite antithetical to the behavior of the father in Jesus' prodigal son parable.
There are no scriptures stipulating that an individual must demonstrate a convincing attitude of repentance to avoid being expelled from the congregation or before being reinstated.
Jesus mentioned that if you speak to the person and he listens to you then you have gained him. Jesus also said to freely forgive those asking forgiveness. So a sinner only has to listen to the congregation in the sense of ceasing his bad conduct and ask forgiveness, to avoid being expelled or to qualify for reinstatement.
i'm agnostic.
there could be a god, but i don't believe it's the god described in the bible.i grew up a jw believing in the bible.
after i left, i didn't want religion but was determined to be a christian on my own.. but things started to unravel.
It makes me wonder what I'm still blindly accepting as fact that is actually false.
Maybe it's this (inaccurately proportioned mercator maps of the world):
The only accurately proportioned map of the world is one found on a globe like this:
according to the wtbts all 1st century christians were evangelizers/preachers, and by extension, all modern-day j.w.
's should be doing likewise.
(for the moment, let's ignore the org's own contradiction that only their elite anointed class are "ambassadors", and that the preaching work was assigned to them!
"Good point! An actual "witness" has to have seen something that they can testify to."
Yes, and that is actually the point being made at Isaiah 43 where Yahweh calls the Israelites his witnesses. He was telling them that they are witnesses to the fact that he is the only real god because they experienced his miraculous saving acts in their behalf. A contrast was being made between Yahweh, the only true God who acts (which the Israelites could testify to), and the false gods of the nations that do nothing.
So what Isaiah 43:10 says only applies to those who witnessed the reality of Yahweh's godship by experiencing his miraculous saving acts. By coopting Isaiah 43:10 out of this context and applying it to themselves, the JWs are twisting the scripture and misapplying it. They are clearly not Yahweh's Witnesses since they, as a group, have never experienced any miraculous saving acts by Jehovah.
Great points made in the OP too. But JWs are not open to reason. I think they try to get around the points by saying that when the bible talks about an evangelizer it is not referring merely to someone who preaches the good news (even though that is literally what the word means. lol) but that it refers only to special, full-time preachers.
Dishonest Watchtower. If they're not twisting the meaning of scriptures then they're twisting the meaning of words.
i'm at home and hear knock on door , i sneak and look i see two men and recognise one voice and go back into lonunge and ask wife ( who is inactive believer) does she want to speak to elders ,she says no ,then literally 3 minutes has pasted another knock the 3 minutes seemed like an eternity.
so brave heart me think fuck it i'll answer ,i invite them in for coffee, i recognise one older man he is a unique elder who i genuinely was fond of when i was in his name is andrew ,the other guy i didn't recognise we will call harry ( not real name australia doesn't have that many cos with his same name).
so i think to myself i will tread lightly and not cause to much of a fuss for the wife's sake, but my personality is very the opposite of treading lightly ,as you read my threads you will realise i'm not timid.
Well done, Chook! They may not use that conversation against you. But here's what they might do. Now that they know you are apostate, they may use another two witnesses to bait you into making apostate statements and then use those conversations as a basis to DF you. Or maybe they'll start a rumor in the congs that you are an apostate and so get you to be unofficially DF'd and shunned without officially acting against you.
i know i will get a lot of backslash on this forum for saying this, but as it looks like, i won't ever be able to escape the jws.
i have been a born in, third generation jw and awoken in one way or another (i joined this forum 15 years ago) for a very long time.
but i have adapted to the jw lifestyle to a point where it does not bother me anymore.
The best and only way to leave a cult is not to physically get out of the cult, but to mentally get the cult out of you. There are many physically out, DFd JWs who are still mentally in the cult and as a result, would virtually commit suicide in a medical crisis requiring blood. Better to be physically in and mentally out, than to be physically out and mentally in.
jehovah's witnesses accept jesus as christ, the son of god.
they try, in their own way, to live by his teachings and imitate him.
they pray, read the bible and meet together regularly for worship.. i won't minimise any of the harm and damage they cause but for the life of me, i can't see how anyone can credibly deny that they are christians.. why do so many former jws have a problem with this?
I get the point of the OP. The JWs profess to be christian and share many of the same basic beliefs of most other christians.
Furthermore, since there are thousands of different denominations of christianity and they all have different interpretations of the bible it's pointless quibbling over whether or not they are practicing the true version of christianity since there is no way for anyone to prove whose version of christianity is the correct one.
When a person tells me they are a Muslim, do I challenge their claim based on whether they are Sunni or Shiite? No. I take them at their word. Whether or not they are living up to all the requirements of Islam is irrelevant to me. What is relevant to me is that they believe the Quran and believe in Mohammed.
Similarly, a person who genuinely professes to follow christ and believes in the Bible is a Christian. Whether or not they are a fully approved Christian as respects the details of their beliefs and lifestyle is irrelevant. There's really no point arguing based on the no-true-Scotsman fallacy.
lets imagine you're a jehovah's witness elder.
you have zero theological training aside from what you've read in the watchtower and the currently still approved watchtower publications, you have zero counseling skills, and no medical training.
a recently bereaved sister approaches you in tears and tells you she just wants to die.. what do you do?.
d) You ask her to show you her aquarium.
i think this may be a bigger issue for the society than we realise.. when you consider that witnesses have now had well over a year of regularly seeing their 'channel to god' with their own eyes, what do you think they're thinking?.
i'm going to put this as respectfully as i can; these men are clearly a bunch of utter clowns who are laughably inadequate to present a tv show, but also, they are now ridiculously discredited due to the absolute shite that they've spoken in these laughable productions.. consider things from a jw's perspective; tony morris, stephen lett & geoffrey jackson are 'the channel' that makes their religion 'special'.
these men are the channel god is using to lead his people in the modern day.
I think the increased appearance of the GB on TV has served to separate the more rational, level-headed JWs from the uber-brainwashed zealots. The former have begun to take the GB less seriously. The latter have begun to idolize the GB and the organization, even more.
a new video is up about the commencement of moving to warwick.shawn bartlett tells the viewers that jehovah has said, through the governing body, ‘it’s time to move out of brooklyn.
‘ then helper robert lucciona says ‘ the governing body, these brothers, as soon as they see god’s direction, they just move, it doesn’t matter if it is long held, cherished ideas, this is the way it has to be done, as soon as they see jehovahs direction.
he just kept nudging imperfect humans, he knew where he wanted us and then we end up where we are supposed to be.
Shawn Bartlett tells the viewers that Jehovah has said, through the Governing Body, ‘it’s time to move out of Brooklyn.
“‘If any prophet presumptuously speaks a word in my name that I did not command him to speak ... that prophet must die." - Deuteronomy 18:20
